Utopia Speculation

[taffimai]

I've been pondering the continuity issues raises by the clip we saw of "Utopia" and what we saw in "End of Days" and I have an idea ...

What if they're both accurate?

Everyone's been looking at the Utopia trailer as a huge problem, since the only thing that we know from End of Days is that Jack didn't go out through the tourist office. It certainly looked like the Doctor picked him up from the Hub, but Jack taking the invisible lift up to the Plass was certainly possible. And yet in Utopia he's clearly running to catch the Tardis on the Plass from that direction of the tourism office.

And that's not the only problem.

In Utopia Jack has a rucksack, but it definitely doesn't look like he had time to grab a bag in End of Days. Now it's not a hard sell that Jack always keeps a bag packed, just in case, but it doesn't seem likely that he's keep it in the middle of the hub, and it doesn't seem like there would have been time to grab it from anywhere else.

Finally, in End of Days Jack has just revived, he looked like hell and seemed weak. In Utopia he's all-out sprinting towards the Tardis. This isn't a huge issue, since we have lots of evidence of Jack pushing himself and doing what's needed, but it's a little strange.

So why assume that the two are mutally exclusive? What if Jack did get picked up by the Doctor in the Hub, a Doctor from a later point in his timeline who wanted to get Jack ready to face his younger self? It would resolve all the issues in continuity, since the Doctor would have dropped him off just out of site on the Plass, Jack could have packed a bag from his old room in the Tardis, and the Doctor would have given him some time to recover his strength. Plus, given the little we've seen of the Doctor in Utopia, I could see older-Doctor wanting to prepare Jack for the idiocy of his younger self.

Obviously it's a bit early to know if this works, but I thought it was interesting. What do you all think?

Comments

[fandom-me.livejournal.com]

You know, honestly, the biggest problem I have with the trailer isn't the direction Jack's running or that he's got a bag. It's that he looks like hell in EoD and he's all pink cheeked and perky in the Utopia trailer. I have weird issues - and I like your idea a lot. I'm not at all sure it'll be canon, but I like it, regardless.

[taffimai.livejournal.com]

You know, the pink cheeked thing bothered me too, but I thought he might just have been flushed from the run. But I think it's the same why-is-Jack-magically-better issue.

As for whether it will be canon, who knows. If they try a retcon then probably not, but if they just ignore it? We're good!

[fandom-me.livejournal.com]

Yes! I like it when they ignore things so _I_ can make them make sense in my head.

And yeah, really. Jack looked like fucking shit. I'd really like that bit addressed *somehow*, but that might be my h/c kink showing. Again.

[taffimai.livejournal.com]

Yeah, I don't think you're the only one with her h/c kink showing. *blushes*

[fandom-me.livejournal.com]

Torchwood and Doctor Who need more h/c.

[taffimai.livejournal.com]

In the fic or on the show?

[fandom-me.livejournal.com]

I meant fic, but I'd take it in the show. Well. No. Not on Torchwood. I'm afraid of what h/c would mean on Torchwood *G*

[taffimai.livejournal.com]

You know, I think a lot of writers aren't sure how to write physical TW-Jack h/c, because the healing thing hasn't really been discussed in canon. It actually annoys me quite a bit, because we don't have anything that would imply that Jack has accelerated healing but it's somehow become fanon.

We need a hurt-Jack campaign. *ponders*

[fandom-me.livejournal.com]

I hate the accelerated healing fanon thing so, so, much.

He got punched by Ianto and that wound lasted. He got shot and killed in End of Days and came back obviously hurt. When Abaddon killed him he looked like shit after he got up (but no more bullet holes, admittedly). He stands up, groaning after Cyberwoman. After he got killed on Satellite Five he was staggering.

Now, admittedly he had the bullet hole from being shot by Suzie kind of remarkably and magically heal in seconds, but this leads me to believe that the injury that kills him will get healed to keep him from staying dead - but only just. It also makes me think Suzie's the fluke, and honestly with a hole still in his brain he shouldn't have popped back up after that one.

There is nothing in the world that should keep TW_Jack from being hurt and staying hurt. Darn it.

[taffimai.livejournal.com]

The Suzie thing definitely works against us. I think the fact that he seems fine after he chnages his shirt at the beginning of Combat does too. But for god's sake, this is Jack. A few claw marks didn't stop him from chasing the damn thing down, why would you think he'd let it slow him down afterwards?

And? You should post this.

[fandom-me.livejournal.com]

Yeah, the claw marks I assumed got covered, not magically healed. The Suzie thing's the only real 'wha?' for me, and that's because he was seriously dead and he stood up while he was healing. I think, for me, the most likely explanation is his brain came on and the urgency of the situation took over.

I should post which where?

[taffimai.livejournal.com]

You should post the no-accelerated-healing rant. Either in your lj or on the torchwood community. Because it's brilliant.

(Also, after taking care of -- read: snogging -- Ianto, he was obviously still in pain when he rolled away.)

[fandom-me.livejournal.com]

...I will so totally post it to torch-wood. I'm a masochist that way. besides, discussion's good.

[taffimai.livejournal.com]

*cheers*

[miss-zedem.livejournal.com]

*butts in* I've always worked on the assumption that he recovers quickly from death (I love being able to write that), but minor injuries take an approximately normal amount of time to heal. So if he breaks his leg, he's out for the time a regular person would be, but if he breaks his neck, he's out for a short time and then recovers.

The recovering from dying seemed to get longer as the series went on - Suzie shooting him in the head took under a minute, Owen doing the same took a couple of minutes. So maybe it's got something to do with how healthy he is when he dies? He's not exactly on top form when Owen shoots him.

But yeah - regular cuts and bruises and stuff? I reckon they're the ones that stick around.

[fandom-me.livejournal.com]

Yep, that's about how I work. If it kills him, it heals. If it doesn't, it doesn't.

[taffimai.livejournal.com]

*butts in* I've always worked on the assumption that he recovers quickly from death (I love being able to write that), but minor injuries take an approximately normal amount of time to heal. So if he breaks his leg, he's out for the time a regular person would be, but if he breaks his neck, he's out for a short time and then recovers.

Yes, this is exactly right. :)

[miss-zedem.livejournal.com]

Or....we just have a great big gaping plot hole and a massive continuity error. Cos the writers at DW couldn't figure out a way to tie it in to TW without confusing the kiddies and the adults who haven't seen TW. So they didn't even try, other than having Jack dressed in approximately the right outfit, and running from a direction that TW viewers will recognise as being from the tourist office.

I don't think they'll bother to explain. *is bitter and twisted* ;)

[taffimai.livejournal.com]

Yeah, that's kind of where I was going with it. I wasn't trying to predict the canon, so much as present a fanon explanation. And was maybe hoping that some talented writer might write the story.

[miss-zedem.livejournal.com]

Based on how things are looking at the moment, fanon is way better than canon, so I don't see why your explanation couldn't work!

And was maybe hoping that some talented writer might write the story. Write it! I'd like to see it.

[taffimai.livejournal.com]

See, I like it when fanon and canon work together. When the fanon is a clever explanation of the holes in the canon, it's just so wonderful.

Write it! I'd like to see it.

Yeah, but my writing isn't really good, so I try to leave it to others.

[lixa-turner.livejournal.com]

I think he may have ran up the stairs. Okay, I don't see how he could have done it quickly enough, but we only know for certain that he didn't go up either of the lifts. I suppose he could have kept a bag handy in the Tourist Office just in case the Doctor ever popped up. It's not the neatest of solutions, but it's possible.

[taffimai.livejournal.com]

But then how do you get the wind in the hub? It made sense with a Tardis pickup and even with the invisible lift, but not with the stairs.

[lixa-turner.livejournal.com]

Erm. Now that I can't explain. Maybe the lift was open and got the blast of wind?

[athousanderrors.livejournal.com]

except for the Doctor and Jack crossing their own timelines. He doesn't like doing that. :P

But yes, I'll admit that I was a bit 'jigga-whaaa?' when I was watching it. Pale, frail Jack in the Hub one moment, with gust of wind in his face, and then suddenly Jack running full pelt across the Plass.

Continuity? What Continuity?

[taffimai.livejournal.com]

Yeah, the crossing the timeline thing is a problem. But better than "it's magic!" as an explanation, right?

[athousanderrors.livejournal.com]

haha. "It's the BBC!!" *nods*

maybe they put retcon in the writer's coffee

[taffimai.livejournal.com]

LOL!

[taffimai.livejournal.com]

That would work, except it doesn't. The spoilers (which have been pretty accurate to-date) say that this is the first time the Doctor has seen Jack since the Game Station.

[noneofyours.livejournal.com]

My real gripe, which I addressed a little in my journal, is that if he ran through the tourist office, forgetting everything else for the moment, what about Tosh, Owen, and Ianto? Would he have been that quick that he didn't run right past them?!

[taffimai.livejournal.com]

Agree totally, that's exactly why I said that the only thing we know from End of Days is that Jack didn't go out through the tourist office!

[cassandraterra.livejournal.com]

Aren't DW and Torchwood two SEPERATE shows? Therefore, there doesn't have to be any continuality, etc. There just have to be some common links. Jack in Torchwood. Jack in Carddiff. More like common, but parallel worlds? So not everything has to link up. Does this make ANY sense?

[faith-less-one.livejournal.com]

But the TARDIS noise at the end of the Torchwood episode implies that there should be continuity. The events of "Utopia" presumably follow on exactly from the end of "End of Days".

[taffimai.livejournal.com]

See, I see it like Buffy and Angel. They're set in the same universe, so there should be continuity.

[admiratio.livejournal.com]

I don't know if you remember, but I posted a poll back in April regarding how continuity between TW and DW was important. 41% of the people who responded thought that 'BBC is in for a smackdown if they ruin this'.

I had foreseen that when people saw the spoilery bit revealed in the clip we would see these types of discussions in this community. I am beginning to wonder if we had the same type of poll it might reveal the same results!

[taffimai.livejournal.com]

No, I didn't see it then. Very interssting results, though!

[aunt-deen.livejournal.com]

We haven't seen every little nook and cranny of the Hub. It's possible that Gwen and Ianto and Tosh came down via the lift with the coffee, and at the same time Jack was pelting up a flight of stairs and still managed to exit through the Tourist Office without being seen.

And yes, he wasn't fully recovered at that point but I'm guessing that the knowledge of the Doctor's presence and the desperation to reach him in time could give him a hell of an adrenaline boost.

[taffimai.livejournal.com]

I still have a problem with the timing of that and the origin of the wind, but it's possible.

[aunt-deen.livejournal.com]

Oh, so do I.

The ONLY way the timing (twenty seconds?) and the wind would work is if the Tardis landed inside the Hub.

Unfortunately, I'd bet my next paycheck that neither of those things will be resolved. These writers are quite content to just leave the sloppy inconsistencies lying at the side of the road and ignoring them.

[(Anonymous)]

thi is another idea (probably dumb) what if jack rqan to his office/ bed room in torchwood (to get his bag) then l8er on he sneaked out lol

[sizequeen.livejournal.com]

See, what I don't understand is that in the clip the Dcotor clearly saw Jack. The Doctor has known Jack was alive all along (at least according to "Children In Need"), so why does he pull off when he clearly sees Jack running toward the TARDIS? I mean, WTF?